Shawn: 00:03

Welcome to another episode of 2 Parachutes Podcast. I am Sean Baker Garcia, your cohost. And with me, I have my other host who is I'll let introduce himself. And then, Scott, if you wanna kick it back to me, I've got a little opening salvo for the group today.

Scott: 00:21

I love the opening salvo. Yeah. I'm Scott Olson. I'm a retired FBI agent, and I bring the grandfather perspective to this. So get ready, buckle up and Sean, before you get into the jump today, give us a little bit on your thinking of what you bring to this, because I know that I've changed from this is my job now to this is my perspective.

Scott: 00:52

I know you've been thinking about that as well And I'm interested to hear you talk about that. And I think everybody that's listening would be better off if they got a little twenty second snapshot into your brain. And then when you get through that, let's jump into the summit thing. I'm excited for today.

Shawn: 01:10

That's terrific. And as always, the perfect spike or set to my spike, which I appreciate for those of you who follow volleyball. You know, Scott and I, it's been now almost about a year since we first started doing this podcast. And we, you know, like most people who engage in these types of podcast endeavors, started with a, you know, kind of a non existent basis of knowledge of how to do it. And, you know, but we knew that we enjoyed our own conversations and that hopefully others would enjoy those conversations.

Shawn: 01:44

And so we have come a long way, I think, in this year, both in terms of our style, our format, you know, and and some of the topics that we cover and and how we address them. What really got me going, Scott, was, you know, when you kinda came in, I think it was last episode, maybe the one just prior to that, where you were you know, had some epiphany moments, we'll say, and that's your story to tell, so I won't go into that. But where you decided that, like, how you are showing up for this podcast and the perspective that you're bringing really changed how you sort of wanted to brand yourself at the introduction. And and and I immediately felt the the vibe change, and it was great. And and, you know, you've always been authentic, but I think, you know, it was just so much more deliberate and purposeful, and just more you.

Shawn: 02:36

And I think that's not an authenticity question. I think every single one of us grows more into ourselves every day that we're alive on this, you know, earth. And so I wanted to meet you in that moment as well. And, know, look, like I said, we didn't know what we were doing here, and we still probably don't. But, you know, we knew that we needed to kind of explain to the audience in quick order who we were and why it, in some sense, mattered, I suppose.

Shawn: 03:03

And so I was the happy accidental CEO and global security enthusiast, which of course, I'm still both of those things. But more importantly to me, and this is my sort of vulnerability moment with the audience is I do also feel a sense of a deeper calling for why we have been, you know, put together in some sense by divine sort of architecture to do this podcast. And so I'm exploring, you know, how I want to, I suppose, brand myself to the audience, you know, because I want you to see who I am and sort of understand my fundamental, like, moral compass and my, frankly, my intention. And so as I work through to kind of discover that and let that reveal itself through these sessions, I'll just, you know, it may be that I change up my branding intro in the next over the course of the next, you know, few sessions. But I'm still me.

Shawn: 04:03

And and, you know, I'm I'm right now, if I had to say it, I'm just your average citizen who's deeply, you know, vested in the outcomes of humanity's survival and cohabitation and, you know, peaceful coexistence. And, you know, and I love Jesus. So that's me in a nutshell, you know, and I just want to bring some of that joy to our conversations, and for people to know that that's who I am right now. Well, like I said, I'm always the other things too, but that's who I'm feeling deeply aligned with right now.

Scott: 04:40

And that's awesome. I think, just as a lead into, you know, our start point for today, you raised two really good points. And I just I want to reflect them back and give people something to talk about, even on this introductory thing. The first is, the more you live, the more you see, and that's what we call experience. And experience changes you.

Scott: 05:06

And in the public discourse, we see a lot of, know, people are wishy washy and this notion that if you've taken a position on anything, it's bad to change that position. And I think we need to reconsider that notion that if you change your mind about something, that it's bad, that you weren't considered before, or you're not considered now. It's sort of the were you lying then or are you lying now thing and that is the complete opposite of growth and that's why it's so important to have opinions be thoughtful and be open to have your mind changed because you don't know everything. When you have new facts, you're going to have a new opinion and so recognizing that evolution the way that you just described it is crucial and it's huge. And the other thing I think that's so important in what you said is when you're sharing yourself, when you're opening up to that little bit of vulnerability to strangers, it becomes less about what you do and more about who you are.

Scott: 06:23

So sure, you're still the accidental CEO. Company. Sure, you still used to work for State Department. I still used to be an FBI agent. But there really is a difference between what you do and who you are.

Scott: 06:40

And it does take some thought to identify what that is and then a little bit of courage to share that and say this is who I am and this is my perspective and this is where I am in the surf as I'm swimming in the surf and sometimes I'm sliding down the wave and it's great and sometimes I get pounded by a wave and that sucks, but this is a little bit of who I am, so I really appreciate that openness and the thoughts that come from it. But let's launch into our start point today. And I think today that's you. I'm

Shawn: 07:26

ready to

Scott: 07:27

listen and think and talk a little bit.

Shawn: 07:29

Well, I'm excited about today's session, Scott, because as you know, it is July 2. So we are just two days away from our nation's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the founding of this experiment we call The United States Of America. And, you know, I guess I'm feeling a little optimistic. You know, in my part of the country where I live here on the East Coast, very proximate to Washington, DC, There have been a lot of preparations going on for the fourth of July soiree that's about to transpire, and in many cases has been already initiated since the end of June, you know, with events going on at the National Mall, sort of this national county fair vibe that they've got up and running, as well as, you know, really cool, like, military plane flyovers, and in some cases, nation. I think France actually had some fighter jets or something I didn't see specifically.

Shawn: 08:24

But, you know, so I might be driving along the Potomac any given day like today. And as I'm heading to my optometrist appointment today, I just got walloped. Like, these freaking fighters just came in. Walloped shit. And they just, you know, right over my head.

Shawn: 08:37

And it was, you know, it was outstanding. I you know, it's a little jarring, I would admit. So probably also not the best for people who are not familiar driving in this area. It can be a little startling. But, you know, make no mistake.

Shawn: 08:49

It was a marvel to behold, and and there was a whole other group of them doing a sortie on the other side of the Potomac. It it just looks cool. It feels good. And, you know, and and I just think, you know, there's so much to love America to love about America and and just to celebrate as as, you know, just kind of living to see another day. You know, I always wake up every morning and my little affirmation is, I thank God for giving me this gift of another day, because we are not guaranteed even one minute past the one we're in.

Shawn: 09:20

And that, you know, just to open me up to kind of thinking and speaking and feeling in the heart and then using my body to do that which honors him and his sort of world, the world that he envisions for us. So what I wanted to talk about specifically with that abundance of joy welling up within me and excitement about our nation's anniversary is something that's sort of tangentially related. And just talking about sort of the long sort of, like, road that we've been on, you know, kind of the rage road, I feel like, that we've been on as a as a global community for for possibly, at this point, decades. But certainly the last ten, you know, eight to ten years, I feel like, you know, toward starting kinda at the end of the Obama administration. I just feel like there's this, like, buildup of collective rage that has just been unleashed and relentless, and it's you know?

Shawn: 10:17

And possibly that's, fueled by social media, and the fact that we're all interconnected, even if we're less connected meaningfully, but we're more connected practically over the virtual space. And but to say that I'm seeing potential signs of life, that that perhaps we have collective rage fatigue. And I'm really prayerful and hopeful that that is actually the case because I know I have recently come out of my rage coma. I was locked into it for many years. Probably, you know, had something to do with perimenopause, not going to lie.

Shawn: 10:57

You know? And so I don't you know, there's maybe some, additional complicating factors that led to my particular brand of rage that I've been embracing these last few years. But it's almost like a spell that has broken, and I feel a weight has been lifted. And I just I'm starting to see it. Or maybe I just wasn't looking for it before, and now I am.

Shawn: 11:19

But let me give you two examples, and then I'll throw it over to you to kind of kick us off with kind of a thought discussion. But one is a clip of a concert, and I think they they were described potentially as like did I get this wrong folk metal? I don't know. That could be another clip I'm thinking of. Anyway, there's this this band in in you know, was playing a gig in Germany.

Shawn: 11:42

And the you know, some of the concert goers were all holding up Russian and Ukrainian flags kinda side by side. And and, you know, the general message that was being conveyed was, you know, that we're we're, you know, we're all one. Right? And and I guess this is potentially an actual movement that one of my European, like, watchers told me is called the un Lost Generation, meaning they found themselves. And sorry.

Shawn: 12:15

So it was a Belarusian rapper. That's what it was. Even weirder than folk metal. I'm like, but, you you know, so we'll we'll move on. But but, you know, at one point on The Real, you know, they they have a a, like, a sign up.

Shawn: 12:28

There's the, you know, like I said, the two different flags. And and and it it read, hatred is the weakest feeling in the world. Kindness is the strongest. And and so, one, I just thought it was a beautiful demonstration of solidarity for both our Russian and our Ukrainian brothers and sisters. You know, they're obviously in the middle of an embroiled, you know, war that is destroying lives daily, and and it's just so heartbreaking.

Shawn: 12:56

So so that was a moment of of, like, sort of hope that I saw an optimism that I thought was super cool and and and that we ought to share. Secondly, you know, you just can't avoid it. Like, the World Cup has been phenomenal. It it it has been all the drama you could hope for in terms of the athleticism and just the, you know, the the, you know, sort of but not not to intrigue is what I was trying to say. You know?

Shawn: 13:24

It's just been a ton of fun. But watching different groups of people from around the world come to cheer on their teams and to just participate in this, I I you know, you see headlines all over the Internet saying, like, know, it's the America's giant cousin sleepover. It's like we're having everybody come and, you know, do a sleepover, and we're finally figuring out that we actually really like our cousins, and it's just our parents are fighting. You know what I mean? And we're just like, we should we should hang out together more, and we love you, and we're having such a grand time.

Shawn: 13:54

And, you know, they're they're just you know, they're at the local Buc ee's, like, having a blast. And, you know, apparently ranch dressing is is an undiscovered, you know, miracle that we were didn't realize we were sitting on. You know? Maybe it's the new oil. I don't know.

Shawn: 14:11

Like, people seem to want it really badly, and TSA doesn't let them take it. So so now now the demand is skyrocketed, you know, with limited, you know, supply. So so I just, you know, all to say, are we entering an age of rage fatigue? Are we finally done with this? And I'm not saying we'll never be mad again about anything.

Shawn: 14:35

I mean, you know, is there appropriate time and place for outrage? But but I think the world needs a break, Scott.

Scott: 14:42

Yeah, yeah, and it's, you really make me think, and you're taking me into, you know, why, and why takes you pretty quickly into how. And I love this notion that, you know, this concept that hatred is weak and kindness is strong. And it's true. But I think that you have to understand why so that you can talk to people who dismiss that. You know, because I think there are a lot of people out there, that feel you have to be vocal, you have to be aggressive, you have to fight for what's right.

Scott: 15:29

And I don't agree with that. I think people who think and who advocate for fighting, people who run for office saying I will fight for you. They are people who have never been in a fight and they are talking to people who have never been in a fight. So they think fighting is good. If you talk to anybody who has been in a fight, whether it's somebody in the military who's been in combat and not necessarily just behind a rifle, but anyone who's been in a combat environment, whether they're the person that's driving a truck, fixing the truck, flying an aircraft, or behind a rifle, they will give you a much different perspective.

Scott: 16:15

If you talk to anybody who is involved in combat sports, they will give you a much different perspective. And I know this personally, because I was involved in martial arts and fought in tournaments, not as a young man, but as a middle aged man. And what you learn very quickly, even in that limited combat environment, is that when you're in a fight, yeah, according to the rules, one person will win according to the rules and one person will lose according to the rules, but you both get hurt. You both get physically hurt. And so this notion that hatred is weak has to start with fighting is a fail.

Scott: 16:55

You can accomplish what you want or you can fight about it, but you actually can't do both. And so you have to choose. Do you want the fight or do you want the outcome? But you jump down that path of thought. And I think where you get what I believe where you get is that the reason hatred is weak is because when you feel hate, it feels bad.

Scott: 17:26

And if you look at, you know, across the spectrum from mental health to any religious tradition to go online and look at the faces of people who are in mobs protesting. Look at as you drive around if there are people where you live on the street corner you know waving signs for whatever is popular now. If you look on their faces you never see anyone that's happy. You see someone who's outraged, you will see a pain almost exclusively and you will see a lot of despair and the reason is that it feels bad and then the question becomes why do people feel bad? Why are they doing this?

Scott: 18:19

We're back to the reptile brain. We're back to how humans function and you're not going to get to a happier place unless you understand how you function. Fluttering leaf, is it the wind, is it a lion, better to presume it's a lion, better to run, warn the village, but you're reacting and it's stressful and it feels bad. Anger is hard because it feels bad. Hatred is weak because it feels bad and what's amazing about it is it is a self inflicted wound.

Scott: 18:58

Maybe your amygdala is driving you there initially but if you don't fight your way and I understand the irony of me saying this, you don't fight your way out of the amygdala, if you don't find a way to get down to your rational brain and think about why you're feeling the way that you're feeling and figure out a better path. And the better path is kindness. And the reason kindness is strong is one, it's not a self inflicted wound. Two, it doesn't hurt. And three, it allows you to become more human because you are recognizing the humanity in another.

Scott: 19:45

What an angry person does after they've hurt themselves is they go forth and hurt other people. When you look at angry people that are in this, we told you we were coming for you, the force types of governments, the communist, socialist, fascist governments that are based on force, they are all hurting other people. When you pass a law to compel behavior, you are hurting somebody. And the only way you can hurt somebody is to demonize them and see them as less human. So why is kind of strong?

Scott: 20:27

Because we are being human. We are recognizing humanity in another person and that makes us more human. And then what does that allow us to do instead of engaging in rhetoric, which is I'm right and you're wrong, I'm good and you're bad, I am human and you are not. We are recognizing humanity. That makes us strong because that's what we are.

Scott: 20:57

So now we debate and why do we debate and why does it matter that we're not engaged in rhetoric and we're engaged in debate? Because when you debate, you are trying to figure out what's true And you may not ever determine what's true, but in seeking what's true, in seeing the humanity of people who aren't you, you gain understanding. And that is a wonderful feeling. That is the path that leads to fulfillment and satisfaction. And so your observation that what we're doing is having this rage fatigue is not surprising.

Scott: 21:43

Because rage is hard. Takes a lot of energy because it's not natural and it hurts. And if the thing you're doing is hurting yourself, at some point you're going to get tired. The crying child eventually goes to sleep. Sometimes it takes hours.

Scott: 22:01

Been there, done that. But the child eventually goes to sleep. Anger in the world eventually gets put to bed. But what do people who get what they consider to be benefits out of anger do? They try and feed the public discourse another thing to be angry about.

Shawn: 22:21

That's right.

Scott: 22:22

You write to your amygdala, you're tired of being angry about this, so now we're gonna be angry about that. We're tired of being angry about global warming, so now we're gonna be angry about artificial intelligence. And don't mean to demean those things as being unimportant issues. What I do mean to demean is the choice to be angry. And this is for everybody who's listening and for everybody who knows anybody who's listening.

Scott: 22:52

Stop hurting yourself. Being pissed off hurts you. And there is another way. It's the way of humanity. But it's a self inflicted wound.

Scott: 23:04

And understanding that is the pathway to fulfillment and happiness. Yeah. I kind of got on an evangelical box there, didn't I?

Shawn: 23:16

No, it's good though. Well, here's what I think. I think that, you know, that all sounds right and good. I also think that, you know, you make an important distinction. There's sort of the average Joe citizen like us who is kind of a participant in just life.

Shawn: 23:34

And then there are those who are on the internet who are, because of their chosen profession, or because of their just personality sort of construct that are actually out there as concentrated focal points of rage, that are cultivating it because it actually brings them some benefit, whether that's a personal sort of, you know, kind of rage addiction, right? Like, you know, there's some people, and I know plenty of people like this, many of whom I love deeply, but whether they're friends or family. And it's like, it's just, you know, they're not like clinically addicted, maybe. Don't know. You know, obviously I'm no psychiatrist or doctor.

Shawn: 24:17

But that is their primary coping mechanism, is anger or rage. And so those people are not fatiguing of it. And those people will continue, because that's just built into who they are for whatever reasons. And then there are the sort of talking head types who are out there doing it for a living. Okay?

Shawn: 24:38

And so neither of those two types of people are gonna stop regardless of how much rage fatigue is being experienced in the world, you know, because there's always rage to milk. You know what I mean? There's, you know, for some constituency or or demographic. Here's what I'll say to that, though. That's just the nature of the world.

Shawn: 25:01

You know, that will always be. But right now, what I'm seeing is the good flooding the internet. And what it's doing is it's drowning out those individuals. And you know what I mean? And it's exposing the sort of the the people who are doing it as a living and making money.

Shawn: 25:30

It's kind of it makes them look a little bit small by comparison. And, you know, they're just like because you're like, ew, like, you're kind of ick today. Like, I don't love the vibe you're throwing down right now. Like, I just watched Scotland drink Boston out of beer. Why are you mad?

Shawn: 25:44

Like, like, you know what I mean? It's too good. Yeah. I am in too good of a mood to, like, be concerned about whatever petty thing you're griping about. And then for the individuals who I would actually lump myself into that category, you know, most of my life, maybe not so much recently, who've just been sort of like it's not even like a rage addiction.

Shawn: 26:07

It's just like, it's what you know. It's how you grew up. So it's how you like, you know, kind of exercise your behavior and whatnot. Know, and then there's, you know, so there's reformed rageists like myself, and then there's, you know, and the or former rageists. And then there's the the people who continue to live their life that way because they haven't yet had the right therapy or had the right, you know, outlet to to to catalyze that rage into a different expression.

Shawn: 26:34

But even those people are more likely, they're raging a little less, or it's a little softer. Because I suspect they're highly empathetic or empathic people, which is why they feel so deeply, which is why they're scared so easily and often, which is why they then turn to rage. Because rage is a is like, if I'm gonna feel bad one way or the other, I'd rather feel rage than than admit fear because rage at least feels empowering. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, you know, I'm not scared.

Shawn: 27:05

I'm mad. Right? Well, that's that's a very you know, it's essentially just the same expression of the same feeling. You know, it's a different expression of the same feeling, but it it is giving you a little bit more control even if you're lying to yourself about that control, which I assure you you are. We have no control over anything most days.

Shawn: 27:23

But if but that's what people it it it feels better. Right? Like, you know so I guess I don't know what my overarching point is with that other than to just say, oh, here it is. Monsters Inc. Have you ever heard of that children's film?

Shawn: 27:39

It's a Pixar.

Scott: 27:40

Of course.

Shawn: 27:41

I think it's a Pixar. Okay. So the very first one, they've had multiple iterations of it since it originally came out. And I think it was the nineties that that first movie came out. The whole premise was that they ran the electrical grid or the power grid in in the little monster bill by scaring little kids.

Shawn: 28:02

That's where you get monsters under the bed at night, is at night, they would enter a portal. They would come into kids rooms all over the country or over the world, and they would be, like, you know, in their closet or into their bed or, like right? And then when the little kid screamed, that scream was producing the energy that then the monster bill could power its life and live. What they didn't realize, and then, of course, they stumble on kind of accidentally throughout the course of the film, is that a giggle is like a thousand times more powerful. Right?

Shawn: 28:34

And so like, that's my metaphor is just when the light is allowed to shine through and when you start flooding the internet with good stuff, one, it exposes the people who make money and profit off of bad because they look small and they look embarrassing in some sense. Like, you know? And it actually elevates the mood for the most part, at least. You know? Again, it does its job.

Shawn: 29:04

Like, even the people who are super rage rageaholics are just like, okay. This I'm not gonna I'll rage just a little less this week because, you know, you know, the Viking the the the Norwegians are over here in a subway rowing at the same time on an escalator. How can you be mad at that? Well, you just can't be mad. You know?

Shawn: 29:23

The Japanese are over in Mexico cleaning up their stadium after the game. Like, you know what I mean? Like or after the match. Like, you just can't be mad at stuff like that.

Scott: 29:32

Yeah. Yeah. There's there's so much in what you say that's important. And so I'm gonna try and touch on the high points. The first thing, which may be surprising, is how wonderful it is that you find this lesson in a movie not only a movie but a kid's movie and a kid's movie that's a cartoon and the observation here for everybody because what we're talking about at the 2 Parachutes Podcast is how to interact.

Scott: 30:07

How to interact not in a way that's better because that would be our value judgment and everybody's going to have a different value judgment and it's important to have value judgments but there has to be something more universal and the universal thing is how to interact in a way that is more functional how to interact in a way that allows all of us the group to be all of us a group And that is notice things. Notice things. Take what's useful wherever it is. If it's in a kid's movie, great. If it's in the Bible, great.

Scott: 30:43

If it's in the Quran, great. If it's in the the Tao Te Ching great if it's something one of your kids says if it's something that your your grandma said when you were a kid all of that is useful and it's useful if you notice it and you think about it and you pull it into your lexicon. So notice things, really notice things. The other thing that's fascinating is this notion that rage is empowering because it certainly feels empowering but it's actually not, it's actually weak and it opens a person if you go down that empowerment path of I'm gonna be angry, angry gives me the feeling of control. It opens you to being manipulated and you know, you listed, you know, the talking heads and and and people that are in the social media world who are gonna continue that rage and feed that rage and for me, you missed one category, which is people that are running for office.

Scott: 32:03

That are politicians or are being political. And the reason that is not only fair game, but really important is because everywhere in the world it is what we call politics, the government, and the people that earn their living from government as opposed to the people that don't earn their living for government from government but pay into government. It's important because that actually is the core of the public discourse. You know, we have the internet technology that allows us to have a much better or a much broader access for our voice if, you know, we can, you know do a video that goes viral and a lot of people see it but speaking in the public square before that technology existed was also important and so the the political realm when we are listening to people who want us to choose them to have authority you know to be able to pass laws which now is a mechanism of force against us, understanding what those people are doing is critical to making a better decision and to interacting with the public dialogue in a different way. And so when we are looking at people who are essentially saying give me power, give me power over you according to our structure of laws and I am angry and I'm gonna fight for you and I'm saying a bunch of things that are making you scared and making you angry so that you'll vote for me and we're coming and then the cursing comes you know we're coming after these you know MRF ers and you know we told you Effer that we were coming for you and we're gonna take you down.

Scott: 34:14

What's really important about understanding how hatred works inside everybody and how it is a self inflicted wound and how it is an inherently weak, not only because it feels bad, not only because it is a, it appears to give you control but doesn't actually give you control over yourself or over anybody else. It opens you to be manipulated and wouldn't it be a different world if we, the electorate, the people that are pulling the lever, know, filling out our ballot in the precise way to make sure that the bubble is, you know, fully blacked in so our vote gets counted? What if we started asking the people that are asking us to give them power, said, why aren't you being kind? Why do you want to force people to do things instead of trying to understand them and neutralize what you see as bad through understanding instead of through force. Because force is

Shawn: 35:35

Coercion, like yeah.

Scott: 35:37

Yeah, and you can use whatever analog words for force that make sense in the dialogue, and people should inject whatever flavor they want. But the bottom line is, it's easy to fight. It's lazy. It's easy to throw a punch. It's easy to take a punch.

Shawn: 36:01

Yeah.

Scott: 36:02

But it's lazy, and it doesn't get you anything. When you are strong, when you are kind, when you realize you don't have to punch, when you realize that you can engage with another person as a human being, and really when when you are confronted by somebody who is angry, who is angry at you, who is angry at you because they think you did something, that person fundamentally is hurt. And it's not that you should be sympathetic to them from a moral high ground, oh you're hurt and I'm going to help you feel better. That's arrogance and that's a self inflicted wound. But approaching that person who's hurt and hurting from truly heartbroken perspective, wow, it hurts to be you.

Scott: 37:06

I don't know that I can help you, but I can certainly see that you're in pain and I would like to understand to see if there's something that I can do to help, is a much different approach. And you know, when somebody is on the stump saying, here are all these terrible problems and I'm gonna solve them by fighting for you, Asking simple questions of how and why. And why is the approach fighting? Why isn't the approach understanding? Why isn't the approach kindness?

Shawn: 37:39

Yeah. And I would interject just quickly to reinforce Ball ball to you. No. Dry no. Just to drive that point home, like, whoever said like, wouldn't it be revolutionary if during the next presidential primary or or or even the the main campaign, if the candidates just made a pact and they just said, look, we're gonna go up there.

Shawn: 38:02

I'm gonna walk across the the stage. I'm gonna, like, vigorously shake your hand and put an arm on your back, you know, Scott Olson, as my competitor candidate and say, you know, hey, Scott. You're looking well. I hope the family's good. Looking forward to a rigorous debate with you tonight of exchange of ideas, and may the best person win.

Shawn: 38:22

You know what I mean? Show us that you actually care about the person on the other side of the podium because guess what? If you win, they are also your constituent.

Scott: 38:32

Yeah.

Shawn: 38:33

You know what I mean? And if and and if everybody agreed to take that approach, then nobody everybody is automatically disarmed in the audience because now you can't hate that person because your leader of your group just just respected and honored that person. You know what I mean? Like

Scott: 38:49

Yeah. So I'm gonna depart with you on something and you let me know where you are on that.

Shawn: 38:57

Absolutely. And where

Scott: 38:58

depart you is the whole agreement part. Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were two or three candidates in a primary debate or two candidates in a general election debate, and one of them just did that? One of them just did that without the agreement and the reason that I sort of head scratch and want to pull away from the agreement is because if we're agreeing then we're negotiating. If we're negotiating then it's quid pro quo.

Shawn: 39:33

And if

Scott: 39:34

I'm doing this, then I'm giving up something else. And my point is, it's not taking the high road to be human. It's not being lazy to be It's not being lazy to be kind. And if you are kind and if you are strong, people are gonna see at some point, maybe not immediately, but they are gonna start to see, wow, this is actually stronger. This is

Shawn: 40:05

actually Well, certainly more attractive. You know what I mean? Human nature will tell you that.

Scott: 40:10

Right. And then it's a groundswell. And then people get on board. People might say, well gee Olson, well you know, you do it, you go run for office, you be the example and what I'm doing is being on the 2 Parachutes Podcast. I am not running for office.

Scott: 40:36

I am spreading this message on this podcast because that's what I feel that I've been called to do. But I also don't think that we need a politician necessarily to do that. My message, my call, our message and our call is every person in the sound of our voice and every person they know who hasn't heard this, why don't you guys give it a try?

Shawn: 41:01

Hey, there you

Scott: 41:02

Why don't you guys give it a try? You know, we're not just looking for the, you know, a wave is made up of water molecules, and so we are all water molecules. We're all H2O, and we make up this wave. And if we begin to do this, it will be a groundswell and it will be a wave. This circles back to your observation of the World Cup fans that are coming to support their teams and they're coming to The United States and they're coming to North America and they're coming to Canada and they're coming to Mexico and the news stories I'm reading are of people who have never been to the places they're going.

Scott: 41:51

People come and they go to the popular places, they go to the big place, they go to New York and they go to LA and they may even come here to Seattle and they go to Florida and they go to the tourist attractions. But when you're on holiday you're not going to probably come to Kansas City or a smaller place unless the Kansas City Citizens League gives people a reason to want to come. And so when you have a World Cup game and people coming and they're coming to small town America and mid sized city America where they might not come before. They are having a fundamentally different experience and what I read, and it's interesting that usually the paper is full of bad news, but this is good news. Yeah.

Scott: 42:50

And what we're seeing is, you know, you were telling me earlier about ranch dressing. You know, people from outside North America.

Shawn: 42:59

It's the new oil man, it's the new oil.

Scott: 43:02

I've never had ranch dressing and

Shawn: 43:04

going bonkers.

Scott: 43:05

And they're going, just, every food that I eat I want to dip into this stuff because it's so good and isn't it wonderful the way small and midtown Americans live and I had no idea. And you know my observation is first wonderful, second gathering new facts. You're you're you're learning something you didn't know and you're being willing to take those new facts and change your opinion about something and third isn't that a good lesson for us? Should we as people not just as North Americans but as people go places. Go to when you're on holiday, go to small places and see what you find.

Scott: 44:01

I went on holiday with friends earlier this year and we went to a small town in Provence in Southern France and it was difficult to get to. You're flying however long it takes to get to Paris and then you're on the bullet train for three hours after you've been on the aircraft and then you know a rental van and it's another hour and fifteen minutes to get to a small town up in the mountains and it's Tour de France land. And we went there because my friend's family, a cousin, lived there and so we had a hook, but finding those hooks and going to places, it was just eye opening to see how people live day to day in Provence and it was wonderful and I had no idea. Mean it was almost out of Beauty and the Beast. It was wonderful and that's part of being human, I think, is to intentionally open yourself up not just to the Louvre but to small town Southern France or

Shawn: 45:10

to the farm, you know. Yeah.

Scott: 45:14

Or, you know, go to go to Ukraine and and, you know, eat Holodets or whatever the the the national food is or, you know, just go somewhere small and learn things, expose yourself to things that you didn't know. It's a wonderful lesson, but the message is you don't have to wait and you don't have to hope for somebody else to do it because if you do these things now, the immediate turnaround for you is you won't be hurting yourself anymore. And I'm not saying never be angry.

Shawn: 45:53

Yeah.

Scott: 45:53

I'm just saying be angry if there's a circumstance to be angry and then think about it.

Shawn: 45:59

Don't don't live in the anger. You know?

Scott: 46:01

Don't. That's a wonderful phrase. Don't live in the anger. That's just getting out of your amygdala and getting over to your rational brain and thinking about it. Do I want to continue hurting myself?

Scott: 46:14

Do I choose to continue being angry? Do I need really, do I want really to kid myself that by being angry, I'm empowered and I have control. When really the strongest, most empowered thing that you can do is be kind. And it's not, you know, give money to every person who panhandles you on the street. And we can have a separate debate about whether that's kind or not.

Scott: 46:45

But seeing the heartbreak in the world and having a good heart about it and being kind, you know, kind doesn't mean taking the world's problems on yourself.

Shawn: 46:57

Well, it's the end of

Scott: 46:58

the s. Just It just means means recognizing the humanity in another and a person who is in a difficult situation is heartbreaking but that doesn't remove the fact that a lot of that is self inflicted, and it can be changed.

Shawn: 47:19

Well, also doesn't mean they don't experience joy, you know, regardless. And so it's that's why I always have had this problem with people who have a hyperdeveloped sense of empathy. It's just like, I don't you know, you don't need to feel my pain. Be grateful you don't. You know?

Shawn: 47:40

I mean, and really gratitude. I know we've been talking a lot today about not joy, kindness. But I think gratitude is another pillar feeling that I think characterizes this whole, like, World Cup, you know, sort of moment where these people are coming in from outside of our nation, some many of them for the first time ever. You know? And they're marveling at this thing called America.

Shawn: 48:09

They're just like, wait, what? It's like this? Like, they had no idea. And, you know, and I think they're grateful for the privilege of being able to come over and to experience it firsthand. I think, you know But here's the other thing.

Shawn: 48:22

I think that they demonstrate a healthy gratitude about that we could do well, our constituents, in learning a lesson. Not those of us like you who, you know, you're a well seasoned traveler, and you've been out in the world, and I have as well. And I do have a large amount of gratitude for where I call home as a result of being privileged enough to go out and see many different cultures and lifestyles. But I think that Europeans fundamentally well, not just Europeans, actually, because in my mind, I keep thinking about the the Norwegians and the Scots, you know, who came over and are just, you know, making, like, chaos in the best possible way known to man. But, you know, it's true for American contingencies, the African contingencies, the delegations coming from Asia.

Shawn: 49:07

They are all deeply proud of where they come from.

Scott: 49:12

Yeah.

Shawn: 49:12

And and and their patriotism is marvelous, and it's glorious to behold, you know? And I think, you know, there's this sort of constituency here in America that has just decided, no, we're not allowed to be proud of our home until we are perfect. That is the most crazy thing in my mind. It's like, treat your country like you would treat your child. You know, you don't withhold love for it because you're simply disappointed in it or pissed off at it.

Shawn: 49:43

Like, I mean, I don't think we appreciate is what I'm saying. I don't think Americans on average, especially those living in the rage right now, really fundamentally appreciate, like, how wonderful their home is. You know?

Scott: 49:58

It's fascinating, isn't it? We seem to have lost the joy.

Shawn: 50:03

Yes.

Scott: 50:03

And when you look at groups that are not from North America that are coming into North America to support their teams. They don't appear to be the British soccer hooligans who are supporting their teams and they want the fight.

Shawn: 50:25

Yeah.

Scott: 50:26

They they are coming here to and and they're bringing joy. Yes. And and they're not they're not pushing joy. They just sit down and Exhibit it. Yeah.

Scott: 50:38

They they they should manifest. They eat and drink and they watch. And revel you know. Yeah and they revel which was a great word right? Yeah.

Scott: 50:47

And and they revel and they're they're unrepentantly happy about who and what they are.

Shawn: 50:55

Yes.

Scott: 50:55

And I think you're right that there has been a push in The United States in particular. I don't know if it's in Canada and in Mexico, but certainly in The United States, we're being pushed to not be joyful of who we are.

Shawn: 51:13

Yeah.

Scott: 51:13

You know if you're male, know go be female because you know there's no joy in being male. If you're female go be male because there's no joy in being female. If you're you know this color or that culture, oh don't be proud of it and don't have joy in it because you are inherently bad for who and what you are. And there's no category that's been defined in The United States right now. I don't think anyone could identify a category where the public discourse is okay, you people can be happy that that's what you are.

Scott: 52:02

Yeah. You know, Everyone's bad. Everyone's a victim. We've lost joy and we've lost joy because we're sitting in our reptile brains and we think that control comes from being angry. We think that control comes from being empowered through being hurt.

Scott: 52:24

And it doesn't power actually comes from joy. That doesn't mean that you're going to be happy every day. No. When bad things happen, you're going be sad and you're going be upset. And when good things happen, you know, you're going to be happy.

Scott: 52:39

But being happy isn't joy.

Shawn: 52:41

No.

Scott: 52:41

Being happy isn't joy. Joy is different. And I would recommend to everybody who's listening and everybody they know that you look out in the world and try to begin noticing joy. Yeah. And then go to it and examine it and and ask it how it got there.

Scott: 53:05

Because if if you can have joy and joy is many different things, if you can have joy, it's good.

Shawn: 53:16

I think that's honestly, that's probably our closer, you know, sentiment, Scott, because I think it's a one, I think it's powerful to leave on that. And, you know, I would take it a step further and just say, joy is practiced gratitude. Because I can be suffering from some horrible situation, facing something even potentially life or death. I could be in the darkest hole in a tunnel in the middle of, you know, a village where I'm you know, a terrorist is trying to and if I dig deep into even it's like the Diana. We talked about that in The Chosen where they were like, it's a gratitude prayer.

Shawn: 53:59

Just being cognizant. Don't let the temporal thing that's causing your pain supersede or override the miracle of all the other things that this life has been able to afford you. And and this, you know, from just the smallest things. And I know I'm gonna sort of wax philosophical on this somewhat, but like, you know, just Go, like

Scott: 54:21

do it.

Shawn: 54:22

The miracle of like looking you know, like watching a ladybug, you know, crawl across your hand as a kid for the first time. How cool was that? Or, you know what I mean, watching a couple this was our Hillside Chalet National Geographic sort of spotlight of the moment of the week. You know, we had these two teenage kit foxes out there who were just having the time of their life last night. They were just tumbling and rolling and having just so much fun chasing each other.

Shawn: 54:50

And it was sort of juxtaposed against this, like, amazing backdrop of, like, a canopy of fireflies. They finally came out. They're a little late this year. Normally, they come earlier in June. And, you know, and I had joy in that moment.

Shawn: 55:03

It didn't matter that my lupus and my Sjogren's has given me an ache here and a pain here, and if I'm limping up to the walkway or whatever. You know? I guess for me, is much you can't take joy from me because it's the measurement of my gratitude for what I have been blessed to experience and that I have yet to experience, and and all of the natural wonders that this earth represents and just those feel good moments, like with the World Cup coming together and bringing people, that's what true diversity looks like. It's not forced. It's not coerced.

Shawn: 55:38

It's natural. It is joyful. It is unbridled. You know? I mean, the the the team fans who are coming are here because they have an inherent joy that they are then in their own idiom expressing, you know, that is distinct from these other countries.

Shawn: 55:58

And then, you know, what a wonderful it's like a melting pot came to America, which is the melting pot. Yeah. And all of this cool stuff is is manifesting. And it's just the realization that, again, I think one of the online sort of slogans is that basically we're just realizing that, you know, we're all cousins, and we really like each other, and we just haven't been able to realize that because our whole lives, our parents have been fighting, you know, and haven't allowed it. You know what I mean?

Shawn: 56:32

And so, you know, so I will take this moment to call on our leaders here in America, starting with them, and just saying, you're right, Scott. It doesn't have to be a compact or an agreement. It just has to start with one person deciding that they've had enough, and they're gonna operate honorably.

Scott: 56:53

Yeah. Yeah. And it it it it will be great when it becomes a person who has political power. Yeah. And influence.

Scott: 57:03

Yeah. Meantime, before then, we have to remember that even in authoritarian, terrible governments, those people came to power because they were able to manipulate people to put them into power. So it starts with you. Whoever is listening to your voice and my voice. I'm speaking to you now.

Scott: 57:26

It starts with you.

Shawn: 57:28

And part

Scott: 57:29

the lesson is happiness is caused. Joy is not. Joy is a choice. Anger is caused. Misery is not.

Scott: 57:43

Misery is a choice. It's like if you get an injury, the pain is caused. Suffering is not. Suffering is choice. And it is a distinction and it is different.

Scott: 57:58

And yeah, I get it. People will struggle with that. Some people that are listening to this will not understand. And the reason that I know that is because when I was a younger man, I didn't understand. I had to learn.

Scott: 58:14

I had to struggle. And some people will struggle and some people will not. Some people will learn and some people won't, but the truth is when you see a joyful person it's not because their life is going well. Their life is good and bad just like anybody else's life is good and bad, but they have joy and and yeah part of the function of joy is being grateful. Part of the function of joy is other stuff that lead you to joy but it's when you choose joy and when you reject agony that's when you have control.

Scott: 58:52

Hey! That's when you have power. That's when you and those things are what lead to humanity. The the fulfilled satisfied human being who looks across the fire and can look into the face and into the heart of another human being and understand where that person is on the journey between, self inflicted wounds and fulfillment and not look at that person and say, well, it's really important to be satisfied and fulfilled. So I'm going to help you and force you and guide you into this.

Scott: 59:33

But to look at that person and be satisfied to understand where that person is in that journey. And that's humanity. That's where we are.

Shawn: 59:47

That's the mic drop, folks.

Scott: 59:49

All right, that's the mic drop. Thank you, Sean, again, for this hour and for the conversation. Thank you all for listening, and we will see you next time.

Shawn: 01:00:04

That sounds good to me.